The Pledge of Allegiance
Should the pledge of allegiance be mandatory, all students required to take part in the stating of the pledge?
Posted By kreiley on September 7, 2007
The "God" business......
Posted By bathory313 on August 29, 2008
'God' is religious whether it refrences Yaweh or Thor
Posted By Brown13Whiskey on November 10, 2008
Simply put, your first amendment rights protect you from saying somethin...
Posted By Edge333 on September 12, 2007
nope
Posted By gforce55x on September 12, 2008
Call For Backup
Invite others to join and support you in this debate. Or maybe you just want to pick a fight! Either way...
Call for backup now!
Digg
Delicious
Reddit
Yahoo
Google
Stumbleupon
Yes! Especially after 911, everyone should be standing up and saying the pledge of allegiance.
"God" can mean anything, from Buddha to Allah.
Within that sentence, you've actually shown how fallacious your argument is. You cannot truly represent all forms of religion if not all of them involve gods. Most of the people who use this argument use it because they can't think of a better reason without sounding like they might actually be pushing their absurd religion on young impressionable minds, which is exactly what you're doing.
As a recent immigrant to America, I can say without fear of contradiction that the pledge of allegiance is a good thing. For the past 30-something years I lived in a country where being patriotic made you a bigot or a racist. I have to say that it is quite refreshing to see that 'most' people in America are proud to be American. Those who are not, should do something about the country, rather than simply slagging it off. Although I am still only a 'legal alien' I pledge whenever it is said in public - the only part I mumble slightly is the "under God" part which I consider to be at odds with my personal views and, most likely, with the founders of this great nation. Additionally, whether you agree with reciting the pledge or not, you have to agree that it is a good idea to have children feel part of a country rather than simply residents.
The pledge of allegiance is a statement of support and fidelity to the United States. I always say the pledge when appropriate. I do not wish to live elsewhere, nor do I feel any contempt towards my nation.
Now as to the God business, I think it should be completely optional. I didn't say it once I realized I was a non-believer, and I would not expect another to say it either.
Religion SHOULD be a personal choice. Although it appears that both sides are trying more and more to politicize it.
Take out god or leave him in, but support your country. The stance that there are things wrong (which I wholly agree with) is not an excuse for a lack of loyalty to the land that feeds, shelters, and provides for you.
Just one atheist veteran's opinion.
The pledge of allegiance is a statement of support and fidelity to the United States. I always say the pledge when appropriate. I do not wish to live elsewhere, nor do I feel any contempt towards my nation.
Now as to the God business, I think it should be completely optional. I didn't say it (Under God) once I realized I was a non-believer, and I would not expect another to say it either.
Religion SHOULD be a personal choice. Although it appears that both sides are trying more and more to politicize it.
Take out god or leave him in, but support your country. The stance that there are things wrong (which I wholly agree with) is not an excuse for a lack of loyalty to the land that feeds, shelters, and provides for you.
Just one atheist veteran's opinion.
The pledge of allegiance is based in religion and there should remain a separation between church an
Simply put, your first amendment rights protect you from saying something you don't wish to say.
-- Posted By Edge333 on September 12, 2007It would be unconstitutional for any school, public or private, to force any child to say the Pledge of Allegiance. It is always their right to remain seated and remain silent. Additionally, the term "one nation, under God" in reference to the United States of America is simply a false statement. This country was neither founded by Christians nor was it ever a Christian nation, even today. The Pledge of Allegiance isn't based on any religion but was changed thanks to Eisenhower. I agree that it violates the "separation of church and state." It promotes monotheistic religions like Christianity, Islam and Judaism.
I would never downplay religion or beliefs because as a human and I do not have all the answers. I can only go on logic. For one, the Pledge of Allegiance speaks about Liberty, Justice, and a false Republic. How can we pledge our values into a document that is not hornored by the country it was meant for? A Republic is a state or country that is not ran by a hereditary monarch giving United States citivens "freedom". How is this country really free when two gay men cant even be married in any state of the country? I'm not saying I agree or oppose the idea but that in its own way is a barrier to these thruths we so call hold self evident. This is the main reason I chose to hold my tounge during our pledge. Untill our country has a document that really describes our countries values I shall not pledge. And sure some Americans feel free and that our country is honorable, but thats only because they where raised in there little bubble where everything is red, white, and blue. Untill they read between the lines is when they'll see the true faults of America.
I would never downplay religion or beliefs because as a human I do not have all the answers. I can only go on logic. For one, the Pledge of Allegiance speaks about Liberty, Justice, and a false Republic. How can we pledge our values into a document that is not honor by the country it was meant for? A Republic is a state or country that is not ran by a hereditary monarch giving United States citivens "freedom". How is this country really free when two gay men cant even be married in any state of the country? I'm not saying I agree or oppose the idea but that in its own way is a barrier to these thruths we so call hold self evident. This is the main reason I chose to hold my tounge during our pledge. Untill our country has a document that really describes our countries values I shall not pledge. And sure some Americans feel free and that our country is honorable, but thats only because they where raised in there little bubble where everything is red, white, and blue. Untill they read between the lines is when they'll see the true faults of America.
I would never downplay religion or beliefs because as a human and I do not have all the answers. I can only go on logic. For one, the Pledge of Allegiance speaks about Liberty, Justice, and a false Republic. How can we pledge our values into a document that is not hornored by the country it was meant for? A Republic is a state or country that is not ran by a hereditary monarch giving United States citivens "freedom". How is this country really free when two gay men cant even be married in any state of the country? I'm not saying I agree or oppose the idea but that in its own way is a barrier to these thruths we so call hold self evident. This is the main reason I chose to hold my tounge during our pledge. Untill our country has a document that really describes our countries values I shall not pledge. And sure some Americans feel free and that our country is honorable, but thats only because they where raised in there little bubble where everything is red, white, and blue. Untill they read between the lines is when they'll see the true faults of America.
this has nothing to do with religion, but you can force anyone to do anything. What if they dont want to? will have them arrested or something?
'God' is religious whether it refrences Yaweh or Thor
-- Posted By Brown13Whiskey on November 10, 2008To say 'God' is ambiguous. You may be talking about Yahweh, Thor, Shiva, Zeus, or any other fictitious entity the human race has manged to dream up. Therefore, the pledge is based in religion. However, more likely than not, people are going to think about the Christian god more than any other, even before the one(s) they believe in.
Let me give you an example:
You are in a courtroom where an a man is being charged with burglary. The defendant is sitting next to his lawyer before the judge, if the plaintiff comes to the front and never says the man's name, but just says 'the burglar', who will the people in the courtroom think he is talking about?
Okay, let's up the ante. Let's say you're in a courtroom full of burglars, but only you and the others in the courtroom besides the judge and the lawyers are aware of this. The same man is in the defendant's chair. The plaintiff's lawyer comes up front and talks about 'the burglar' are you going to know that he's talking about the defendant, or are you going to be so perplexed that you'll fall on the floor?
Let's say Yahweh is on trial now. As you know, the common term for him is simply, 'God.' There are the deities of other religions all around you, and you happen to be sitting next to Zeus. Do you think that if the plaintiff's lawyer says 'God took the plaintiff's gold jewelry and sold it for crack', that Zeus will suddenly become enraged and smite the lawyer with a lighting bolt? No, I'm pretty sure we know who he's talking about.
What I'm getting at is that in America, God (in the Christian sense) is the elephant in the room. If you say 'God' to the average American, they'll immediately think of the Christian one, not Zeus, Shiva, or Thor. If the pledge truly was meant to encompass all gods, it would say 'gods', not 'God.'
Also, the pledge did not originally have the words 'under God' in it. It was changed in 1954 when president Eisenhower attended a sermon hosted by the Knight's of Columbus, a Catholic fraternal group, about how the nation was a nation 'under god' and how the US should boast this. Eisenhower agreed and it was signed in to law later that year, however the Knights of Columbus had been lobbying for the change for years.
Please tell me how that has nothing to do with religion. Please, please PLEASE.
I added an apostrophe on the first 'Knights' where it was not supposed to be.
RSS
About kreiley
I'm here because it sounded like the place to be.