Have we created a monster?

We are living longer than ever, thanks to medicine in general. Babies that might have otherwise died are kept alive through artificial means. Are we screwing with the natural order of things? Are we creating a population overload?

Posted By bathory313 on August 29, 2008

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"I'll sleep when I'm dead".

Ray_avatar

Plenty of room here and plenty of other planets

Posted By Falkon1313 on August 30, 2008

Bible_fiction3

China had it right for a while...

Posted By xoandre on August 30, 2008

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Yes, the earth will soon be overrun.

Bible_fiction3

China had it right for a while...

-- Posted By xoandre on August 30, 2008

Sure, the Chinese used to have a general rule that women bearing female offspring as a firstborne were legally allowed to be put to death by their husbands, but...

The Chinese government allows ONE child to each couple. Any additional children are either put to death at birth or the parents pay a huge fine...

I know there are many who think this a horrendous event, but I live in a suburb of Chicago where there are WAY TOO MANY "Good Catholic Wives" bearing at minimum six to ten children for their husbands and their church.

I do believe there should be a law that any parents having more than two children should pay an exponentially increasing fine for each additional child. The only exception to this rule would be triplets or quads.

The religious fanatics who feel that they are required to bear as many children as possible while the woman's womb is ripe and ready should be arrested and executed if they cannot be converted to a more realistic and reasonable mindset.

I support something like your position, xoandre, but I would like to add that I think it's more to the point to say not that there should be laws to that effect, but that people should simply refrain from having large families out of a sense of ecological respect and humility.

I do realize that's incredibly idealistic. I also realize that it represents just how far out of harmony with our environment our culture has encouraged us to stray.
Sure, it is extremely idealistic.

Expecting anyone to "simply refrain from having large families out of a sense of ecological respect and humility" is like expecting smokers to ask everyone around them if it's okay to light up, or like asking a rich man to share the wealth and give all his money away.

It's great in principal, however not very likely nor logical in the reality of today's society.
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No, there's plenty of room for more people.

Ray_avatar

Plenty of room here and plenty of other planets

-- Posted By Falkon1313 on August 30, 2008

There are still vast tracts of undeveloped wilderness and plenty of vacant buildings in the cities.

The USA feeds itself with only 0.6% of the employed population in agriculture, so there's plenty of food (or would be if it were properly distributed).

We haven't begun to settle Antarctica or the sea. And there's plenty of room in the galaxy beyond the atmosphere, which we can't use now, but will be able to by the time that we need it.

Update:
On the other hand, we may be devolving by halting the process of natural selection.
But how much more of the earth can we 'settle' before we upset the natural ecosystems? We are already massively polluting the sea, land, and air. Maybe the lemmings have things the right way.....

*Kidding*--I know that's a fallacy.
Well, I have always thought that Quinn's idea about humans and evolution makes a lot of sense: humans stopped participating in natural selection as soon as we developed the capacity to systematically and perpetually alter the environment to our benefit (i.e., the Agricultural Revolution of antiquity). From that point on, our very culture serves the adaptive purpose that we suppose natural selection to fulfill elsewhere in the biosphere.

And it is precisely because of this that our species is getting itself into trouble.

The statistic you quoted about US agriculture is not really representative of the rest of the world; for instance, it is also true that the US uses about 25% of the world's energy to support less than 5% of the world population. Hardly encouraging, considering our reputation for tech prowess.
It is a good point that world hunger is rarely about lack of food and more about poor distribution, so kudos for that.

I tend to look at the problem less in statistical Malthusian terms and more in ideological or anthropological terms. It just seems to me that human material cultural development is too greatly outpacing human intellectual/ideological cultural development; our belief systems lag too far behind our material circumstances. For instance, most people still live in a very anthropocentric world of fiction in direct defiance of the fact that we now know that the Universe is anything but anthropocentric and the planet on which we live demands a precise ecological balance and a finely tuned sustainable ethic of which such anthropocentrism is the direct antithesis.


I would agree with you that
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